Carry an interesting discussion recently appeared on "Ask the geologists" of www.geoforum.it
It 's a clear example that highlights how they are often approached the design. The example is
Sardinian but could very well happen in Piedmont.
Orignal Title: Foundations in surface
Posted by: lino.type
foundations on the surface - 15/08/2010 02:37
Hi, on a plot of land (Area B [a prg?]) of alluvial sedimentation with mixed, I was suggested the possibility to construct a residential building (ground floor +1) creating the foundations scotico above the natural ground on which it was created a hornet's nest of ciottalame back to street level for a h. cm.60/70.Domanda average: it is a practical and feasible implementation of suitable surface or foundation is always required to break a hole in depth? thanks, Lino (I hope I have posted in the correct forum)
Posted by: mijasimo
Re: Foundations to the surface -
08/15/2010 07:40 Hello, I am personally aware of cases where that type of approach (as it is facing on the ground) has resulted in damage not indifferent to the failure to infrastruture differenziali.Diciamo that the removal of the soil "plant" is a practice mandated by the good senso.Un greeting
Posted by: lino.type
Re: Foundations to the surface - 08/15/2010 08:00
Hi, I analyze the soil by a geologist, who gave me a report (8 pages) where he argues through penetrometer test the need for an excavation for the construction of foundations, the depth of mt.1, 50 in order to have a good lift (64kPa). There are no on-site groundwater freatiche.Questo result clashes with the expertise of an engineering study (4 engineers), which support the thesis that a foundation of continuous type (cm70x50) can be realized anche sul piano di campagna oppure anche sopra un vespaio di ciottolame senza costipamento ( cm. 60/70 di altezza), necessario per riportare il terreno a quota strada.Domanda: in casi simili al mio, con pareri tecnici diversi, come ci si deve regolare?grazie, Lino
Posted by: mijasimo
Re: Fondazioni in superfice - 15/08/2010 10:43
Credo di aver già risposto.Un saluto
Posted by: mccoy
Re: Fondazioni in superfice - 15/08/2010 11:28
Ma, linotype, quello che dicono i 4 ingegneri è proprio contrario alle procedure di buona pratica.E' come se io dicessi che la stampa di un libro va fatta riportando il titolo in 4a pagina di copertina e le note pagina.Nel first author in the case of a book can be a good publicity stunt, if your building the practice can result in an economic disaster.
Posted by: michelec
Re: Foundations to the surface - 15/08/2010 12:26
something is back 64 kPa and soil B did not agree, only a penetrometer test and no other seismic is not enough ( where you are casamicciola?) and engineers about what they use (it takes 4 to tell those around you ...) on divination or type ipse dixit? or give us more information or ready to take advantage of a lawyer that you need and remember that even as the customer you are responsible too!
Posted by: mccoy
Re: Foundations to the surface - 08/15/2010 13:18
Originally posted by: lino.type
Question: In cases similar to mine, with several technical advice, as you have to adjust? thanks LinoAnche here procedure is good practice to make use of another technician who controls the work of primo.L 'survey, 8 pages, in the light of new regulations is severely lacking, as condensed and free of frills like essere.Una penetrometer of that type ? In which area? how deep? Nothing geophysics? Again common sense suggests that spending more money now to have it run a real investigation by a geologist credited, rather than into trouble after it dopo.Si tutto della costruzione di una casa, che dovrebbe di regola rimanere integra per decenni e decenni. Fatti consigliare bene su un altro geologo che sia esperto nella nuova normativa, purtroppo ce ne sono ancora molti rimasti indietro.
Posted by: Luca_76
Re: Fondazioni in superfice - 15/08/2010 14:27
Originariamente inviato da: lino.type
una buona portanza (64kPa).
Originariamente inviato da: lino.type
uno studio ingegneristico (4 ingegneri), che sostengono la tesi che una fondazione di tipo continuo (cm70x50) si può realizzare anche sul piano di campagna Cose da pazzi!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Originariamente inviato da: lino.type
Domanda: in casi simili al mio, con pareri tecnici diversi, come ci si deve regolare?Mandarli.........ad un corso di aggiornamento professionale!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Rivolgiti ad altri tecnici (Ingg. e geologo)....forse un po' più costosi.........ma la tua casa nel futuro prossimo ci sarà ancora (integra).........come giustamente suggerito, in modo più professionale dai colleghi.........
Posted by: lino.type
Re: Fondazioni in superfice - 15/08/2010 16:15
Salve, ringrazio innanzitutto per le obiezioni sollevate e aggiungo le seguenti precisazioni:L'indagine e l'analisi the geologist has been achieved through the use of a dynamic penetrometer average, with mallet with a mass of 30 kg, 20cm sprint and the surface of tapered tip 10 with an aperture of 60 cm ² gradi.La trial was continued until the depth of 240 cm from the country to which the large amount of pressure exerted on the ground by the construction of the building, for those who are eligible for the pressure potential, it is now zero or trascurabile.I results of the geologist said that the land underlying the mt.1 deep, 50 can be considered buoni.Sono geotechnical methods were applied and compared: Das / Burland-Burbidge / Parry / Peck-Hanson / Schultze-Sherif / Anagnostopoulos.La relationship with all of the geologist data and graphs is a document that consists of page. 22.Di against the engineering study has not done any testing, you are limited to an inspection and a visual check at the lot of the land, I have also issued a report which among other things wrote: "A continuous perimeter foundation ( cm70x50), which supports the walls and floors of a residential unit (ground floor +1) is subjected to a load of about 8000kg/ml.La permissible voltage on the ground, not taking into account the underlying stone will be equal to 8000 / (70x100 ) = 1.15 kg / cm, which is highest of 0.64 kg / cm obtained from the geotechnical investigations. But if we consider that the rocks below, while not confined, thickness of about 60cm, transmits the load at an angle of about 40 ° / 45 ° (angle of internal friction of the pebbles), then the stress on the soil depth is equal to: 8000 kg / ml / ((70 +30 +30 ) x (100)) = 0.61 kg / cm < 0.64 kg/cmq.Pertanto le fondazioni perimetrali continue, se realizzate in superfice, sopra un vespaio di ciottolame, sono in grado di funzionare correttamente.Domanda: I pareri tecnici sono decisamente diversi, come ci si deve regolare in un caso come questo, al fine di non pregiudicare la futura costruzione?grazie, Lino(n.b. sono disponibile x ulteriori chiarimenti e informazioni)
Posted by: mdl
Re: Foundations to the surface - 15/08/2010 17:43
deepen your foundation of foundations is generally necessary, because normally the in surface soils are very compressible because of a high content of organic materials (soft and subject to decomposition) and a high degree of chemical and physical alteration of the inorganic fraction, due to the direct exposure to the elements. In this regard, the particulars of the legislation to be considered are those of Decree 14 January 2008 - New Technical Regulations for Construction, which in paragraph 6.4.2. establishing design criteria for shallow foundations:
Quote:
6.4.2 FOUNDATIONS SUPERFICIALILa depth of the laying of the foundation should be chosen and justified in relation to the characteristics and performance of the structure in elevation, the characteristics of soil and environmental conditions . The foundation plan must be located under the layer of topsoil and under the layer affected by frost and significant seasonal variations in water content. In situations where it is possible erosion or undermining by acque di scorrimento superficiale, le fondazioni devono essere poste a profondità tale da non risentire di questi fenomeni o devono essere adeguatamente difese.Puoi anche scegliere di fondare al di sopra del piano campagna ma dovrai giustificare la scelta.In sostanza, se dalle indagini eseguite risulta che il manufatto, compreso lo strato di pietrame, non poggerà su terreni compressibili o comunque degradabili, e se non vi è pericolo di scalzamento delle fondazioni per erosione del terreno superficiale, puoi anche costruire al di sopra del piano campagna.Tuttavia, i colleghi ti facevano notare che le indagini eseguite sembrano un po’ scarne rispetto alle richieste delle Nuove Norme Tecniche per le Costruzioni, entrate pienamene in vigore dal 01 luglio 2009. In particular, check that they were made of tests for the seismic characterization of the site unless the site falls in Seismic Zone 4. If not you would have problems with the offices of genius civile.Per Zone B means the area of \u200b\u200bUrban Completion? Loads that you have brought seem a bit 'high for only two floors of a building, even an order of magnitude più.SalutiMichele De Luca
Posted by: lino.type
Re: Foundations to the surface -
16/08/2010 07:44 Hello, thank you x add details and all the data described are derived from the experts: 1) The land falls within the belt area B defined by the municipality, there are other buildings in the immediate vicinity, however, all arise from the foundations made by scavo.2) The land lies on a seismic zone 4 (gray area with very low hazard index) 3) The investigation of the engineering studies were those previously described (having read the plot and nothing else) and I have no idea what kind of investigations should be done instead? 3) The allowable stresses to which I referred are those described in the surveys: results of the geologist = 64 KPa burglary to be carried out at a depth of at least mt.130risultato of Engineers: "A continuous perimeter foundation (cm70x50), which supports the walls and floors of a residential unit (ground floor +1) is subjected to a load of about 8000kg/ml.La permissible voltage on the ground, not taking into account the underlying stone will be equal to 8000 / (70x100) = 1.15 kg / cm, which is highest of 0.64 kg / cm obtained from the geotechnical investigations. However, if we consider that the rocks below, although not confined to a thickness of about 60cm, transmits the load at an angle of about 40 ° / 45 ° (angle of internal friction of the pebbles), then the stress on the soil depth is equal to : 8000 kg / ml / ((70 +30 +30) x (100)) = 0.61 kg / cm < 0.64 kg/cmq.Pertanto le fondazioni perimetrali continue, se realizzate in superfice, sopra un vespaio di ciottolame, sono in grado di funzionare correttamente.Domanda: quanto sostenuto dallo studio ingegneri è controvertibile? Se sì, su quali calcoli ci si deve basare?Se no, allora ci si può basare anche su quanto da loro affermato ed edificare senza problemi, le obiezioni sollevate restano solo opinioni personali.grazie, Lino
Posted by: michelec
Re: Foundations to the surface - 16/08/2010 08:12
said that 2:40 m investigation are far too weak and nothing is known about the ground below, which is a good idea to establish a below the zone of influence of weather and dellla area that is affected by changes in humidity and temperature that a 2.40 m with the "penetrometrino" it has not come back with the refusal q intake (old rules) of 64 kPa. then that does not take into account the mounting depth is another big mistake. I know that you went from engineering geologist with just cerarli lantern.
Posted by: lino.type
Re: Foundations to the surface - 08/16/2010 08:32
???.... I turned to my dear friend surveyor (practicing for more than 20 years and I consider it a serious person), I contacted a geologist and guaranteed the skill, competence and serietà.Il geologist said to me verbally and also in writing in the report that in order to achieve an adequate understanding of lithostratigraphic local surface conditions, has planned a study articulated through the creation of a "modest campaign of soil tests" in situ, followed by processing the data obtained . The geologist says that its survey was more than enough to provide data relating to land and that there was no need to spend more money for more indagini.Cosa means <
Posted by: lino.type
Re: Foundations to the surface - 08/16/2010 08:39
ps. x respect the engineers, (they are 4: The first is a friend di vecchia data di mio fratello e realizza progetti e direzione lavori di palazzi su palazzi.Il secondo segue tra le altre cose perizie e calcoli per conto dei tribunali.Del terzo e quarto ingegnere non so nulla, però trattasi di studio serio e di gente che è sulla piazza da trentanni.....A prima vista sembra brava gente....che ne sò, io lavoro nel settore elettrico, non sò nulla di travi, fondazioni,pilastri etc etc....x me le case sono tutte uguali, fate un pò voi.Lino_
Posted by: michelec
Re: Fondazioni in superfice - 16/08/2010 08:51
lino ti confermo le mie osservazioni se a 2.40 m si ha il rifiuto le q amm sono oltre (a occhio) 200 kpacomunque se non dici la zona sono tutte ipotesi di Maximum
Posted by: lino.type
Re: Foundations to the surface -
michelec 08/16/2010 08:58: however if you do not say the area ..... No problem, it is a land I bought 2 x years ago to build a second home (vacation use) in Sardinia, the land is located in the city of Lino oristano_
Posted by: lino.type
Re: Foundations to the surface - 16/08/2010 09:04
ps. What does it mean if you have the 2.40 m amm q are over the refusal (by eye) 200 kpa? nn I understand if you dispute the result obtained by the geologist (64 kPa) ..... I read on wikipedia that question measuring pressure comparable with other units of pressure ...... Posted
by: 321
Re: Foundations to the surface - 08/16/2010 09:37
In this case it seems to me that in addition to threatening the foundations placed directly on scotico altered, little or variously constipated, not preserving them from possible seasonal variations, the value of D (joint or four year.) Nq and consequently is approximate to 0 in the known formula Prandlt for inspection at the critical load or reduce significantly the bearing capacity of soil. In addition, resting on the gravel pit, I understand intuitively a significant lowering of the resistance to friction along the base in case of inspection at the cut, with passive resistance, of course = 0
Posted by: mccoy
Re: Foundations to the surface - 08/16/2010 10:24
Lyno, from what you write I assume that the engineers did not provide foundations on ground level, which was something unheard of adi, but foundations resting directly on a 'hornet's nest', ie a layer of stony soil reported in site after the soil excavated and disposed of in posto.Non shall specify the thickness of this hornet's nest. The procedure, however, is fine if: 1) the crawl space is adequately rullato2) in the soil beneath the crawl space is adequately resistenteIl rejection implies a sufficiently resistant layer of soil, so a qamm of 64 kPa does not make sense, is too low (if the refusal is not caused by a block or a block straterello very stiff).
Posted by: lino.type
Re: Foundations to the surface - 08/16/2010 11:04
x McCoy: No, not exact, the engineers provide the foundation above the country, for them is not relevant under which there is or is not a hornet's nest of gravel (which average 60 cm in height), is not contained on the sides and is uneven (the surface of the gravel has been rolled, but only beaten by the excavator bucket that has worked on and placed in the landfill loco.Il ground under the crawl space has undergone a scotico average of 20cm, the geologist says the ground under the scotico did not lift properly and that we should get at least mt.1.30 deep. The but engineers say that this land was the need to bring the same at the entrance (60 cm on average) were ordered to carry out on site this hornet's nest of quarry material (gravel). There was no an audience, but the continuous foundations (cm70x50), the building is a rectangle that has mt20x10 lato.Al center of the foundation, there is a beam (cm30x50) connecting reinforcement which combines centralized two sides of the building are 10 mt.Sopra set of 2 apartments mq.100 cadauno.L 'height of the building to the roof ridge mt.7.50.A support of their thesis project and gave me the report with the stamps, signed and countersigned where there are calculations that have already Annex: 8000 kg / ml / ((70 +30 +30) x (100)) = 0.61 kg / cm < 0.64 kg/cmq.grazie x le delucidazioni, Lino
Posted by: mdl
Re: Foundations to the surface - 08/16/2010 11:13
Originally posted by: lino.type
Question: what engineers supported by the study is questionable ? If so, what calculations should be based? If not, then you can rely also on what they said and build without problems, the claims made are only opinions personali.Ti understand, are unsure whether to give credence to the assessment by eye of 4 engineers and one geologist's estimate. Ask the calculations on which to base the choice, but those calculations should be based on experimental data relevant to the problem and in such number as to be representative of the local situation; you have only a single stratigraphic data from penetrometer test light and a point estimate of the capacity portante.Non have data on: - Uniformity / lateral heterogeneity of land cover -> The thickness is the same anywhere in the site? The technical characteristics (strength, compressibility) are the same anywhere in the site? - Compressibility of the land included in significant volume -> maximum subsidence -> Following the application of the load, how much lower the level of foundation? Differential settlement -> The lowering of the foundation will be uniform or, in opposite sides of the building, there will be failures of different entities and which would damage the structures? - Presence of faldaOra, if you want to be sure of your choices, or investigate further, or take away the land surface by check during construction that there are abnormal situations (carry bags, underground utilities, etc.).. (Count: 4 engineers - geologists 7) SalutiMichele De Luca
Posted by: lino.type
Re: Foundations to the surface - 08/16/2010 11:16
x mccoy, add: <
Posted by: michelec
Re: Foundations to the surface - 08/16/2010 11:36
the penetrometer values \u200b\u200balone sull'addensamento correlations with soil and then "reasoning" is related to a type of soil, "notes" (but you have no excavation or survey, or a shred of stratigraphy or lab tests and then you see how the test was conducted with or without the cover if and when the geologist - not to mention ing that geotechnical has shown that those who know little or even if not chew the NTC is not expressed in terms such as lift and load-eligible stratigraphic knowledge of the site that has allowed him to make assumptions that are made-by the way the report is 22 or 8 pages?) and we do not have the chart on which to express "opinions" not reviews. seems then that is a shallow 2:40 etc.però significant work before stopping the requests explanation seems too drastic
Posted by: lino.type
Re: Foundations to the surface - 08/16/2010 11:42
Add: I also posted the same question in the forum of engineers, http://www.ingegneri.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=37582 nella speranza di ottenere dei pareri concordanti.....(ma pare che ing. e geol. abitino pianeti diversi....)ecco cosa dice:vic_turbine Se devi fare una fondazione su un terreno scadente hai diverse opzioni ma le principali sono tre, o cerchi uno strato piu´resistente, o allarghi la superficie della fondazione oppure migliori le caratteristiche del terreno che hai a disposizione.Se l'éntita´dei carichi non e´tale da escludere qualcuna di queste alternative restan tutte e tre in ballottaggio e si decide sulla base dei costi o di considerazioni di altro tipo. Nel tuo caso, se in ogni caso ci sono 70 cm da colmare tra il piano di campagna e quello stradale, fare come si fa abitualmente quando si innalzano i rilevati stradali e' una possibilita' e It is also probably the solution piu'economica. Overall, however, 'I think the main question to be answered in this case is not so much what is the best way to make the foundation, but rather whether or not you need a cellar. In 90% of those who think risparmiarsela then regret for life. Really stupid cat flap would be a one-meter and sessanta.che babe? Lino (ps. .. I feel a little out of the way, I am a master electrician and it is as if I and the manufacturer of copper electrical cables had conflicting opinions about the scope of the same .... boh?) Or an engineer . I dispute the power absorption of an engine ..... it seems to me unlikely in short ...... 2x2 and variations should give the same results for everyone, everywhere .... but here it preaches a philosophy already ......
Posted by: lino.type
Re: Foundations to the surface - 08/16/2010 11:53
x michelec: will excuse my error, the study of geology consists of page 22, there are a descriptive report sites and operations + all graphs obtained with programs intended to test whether calcolo.cosa with or without the cover? Started welcomes graphics ..... but I do not see how to attach the file .....
Posted by Lino : mccoy
Re: Foundations to the surface - 16/08/2010 24:23
So, now is a little more clear, summarizing everything said so far: the engineers did make a buyout after the removal of 20 cm of soil superficiale.Il detected at 60 cm was compacted with a bucket not rullato.il geologist claims that the land immediately below the embankment does not have an adequate resistenza.A Now I can tell you: a) removal of only 20 cm of soil in place was fine for a road structure, a building is generally more conservative, the detected beat Quelala manner also may not be sufficiently constipated and can present the most deboli.b) The calculations of engineers, geotechnical point of view, they are rude and not very conclusive, although their optical nelal ripologia are appropriate to the structure and the extent of carichi.c) in relazione ai carichi contenuti della struttura non è necessariamente detto che tu avrai problemi in futuro, ma io una procedura del genere per la mia casa non la farei MAI adottared) In relazione al contrasto tra geologo e ingegneri, le obiezioni del geologo sono fondateAlla fine, cosa faccio dirai tu?Se un amico nelle tue condizioni mi chiedesse un parere, gli risponderei come ti ha fatto michele: per essere sicuri bisognerebbe eseguire un indagine ex novo a partire dalla sommità del rilevato.Che tipo di indagine? Almeno due prove dinamiche superpesanti, meglio se tre, i colleghi nei precedenti post hanno posto il problema della potenziale disomogenità e questa può essite nell'ambito del terreno artificiale e nell'ambito naturale.Non spoil exploratory dig a pit on the side of the embankment and take a sample to be subjected to laboratory tests, direct shear test and is edometrica.Mi inter alia, that this practice is very common in Sardegna.In This will decide, with the current state of affairs, if it is possible to proceed with a sufficient margin of safety or not.
Posted by: michelec
Re: Foundations to the surface - 08/16/2010 12:29
I read on forums and it seems to me that, except ing the last speech saying the same things and the same concerns this point deficit decide Do you want to do what I think, however, that not a lot of things involved and not grab so you can create misunderstandings e fraintendimenti forse sgradevoli per il geologo che probabilmente ha fattouna relazione basata sulla sua esperienza facendoti sendere il meno possibile. che alcuni ing poco rispettosi della professionalità altrui e poco competenti in geotecnica, senza sentire o confrontarsi con il povero geologo, prendano decisioni e tutta responsabilità ed onere loro. bisogna vedere a chi credi (gli ing del forum hanno dato ragione al geologo ed ahhno confermato il giudizio dato da noi)
Posted by: m-d-l
Re: Fondazioni in superfice - 16/08/2010 12:34
Originariamente inviato da: lino.type
Ringrazio x le gentili delucidazioni, l'edificio non è stato ancora realizzato, e se i pareri che ricevo sono ponderatamente negative, and justifiably, I reserve the right to stop the pain posta.Non lavori.Lino The question is can you ask a forum net claims such as "stop work" or "go ahead". You can expect only methodological suggestions, the ones you were already given and stressed the importance of investigations in the Site priori is not possible to state with certainty that neither the technical properties of soil are poor or that they are good. Investigations are on-site at a reduction of the uncertainties arising from the natural variability of soil properties. In your situation, since there has been little research and you'll have a review during construction of the nature of the terrain on which home, to reduce the uncertainties you have left only the confidence that you can put in a position to experience the 4 engineers to local conditions. Regards Michele De Luca
Posted by: Luca_76
Re: Foundations to the surface - 08/16/2010 23:34
...... I will be the surveyors as well ..... I trust little of ingg . civil / structural engineers software engineers .......... is not that the question is that we have placed a "hoax "?..... or worse you are a director works (Arch, Geom.) that has in his hands the project tables with strange writing "is given in the task manager rechecking the work during construction of the adequacy of the geotechnical data" or similar phrases, which are sometimes seen in the yard .....?? that ....... non sa che pesci pigliare..............oppure un geo"metra" che vuole un consiglio...........perchè è abituato a lavorare un tanto "al metro"???......ma non vuole recarsi da un Ns collega locale perchè bisogna sborsare???.....perchè altrimenti sei finito nel più grosso vespaio post D.M.11/03/88 mai visto!!!! .....in quest'ultimo caso confermo tutto quello che è già stato detto dai colleghi in precedenza.....(....e mi scuso delle accuse ingiuste fatte.....).....lasciando a te a questo punto la decisione finale sul da farsi (prima che sia troppo tardi)!
Posted by: lino.type
Re: Fondazioni in superfice - 18/08/2010 04:10
Autore: m-d-lOggetto: Re: Fondazioni superficeLa in question is badly posta.Non you can ask a forum net claims such as "stop work" or "go forward." You can expect only methodological suggestions, the ones you have already given and stressed the importance of investigations in Exhibitor: Hi, far be it from me to shift the burden of a forum that decisione.Di done these things, there are already myself, I heard yesterday, the day before yesterday and I stopped the legal business.
Posted by Lino : lino.type
Re: Foundations to the surface - 18/08/2010 04:19
Author: Luca_76 ...... I will be the surveyors as well ..... I trust little of ingg. civil / structural engineers software engineers .......... is not that the question that we both have placed a "hoax "?..... or worse you are a director works (Arch, Geom.) which in his hands the project tables with strange writing" is given in the task manager to work on rechecking during construction of the adequacy of the geotechnical data "or similar phrases, which are sometimes seen in the yard ..... ????....... who does not know which way to turn ....... ....... or a geo metro that wants a council ........... because it used to work a lot "but not the meter "???...... wants to go by one of our local community college because you have to shell out ???..... because otherwise you end up in the biggest hornet's nest post DM11/03/88 ever seen!! Egr.Luca_76quanto says it is understandable to me that I'm from this Part of the problem is symmetrical and opposite .... the rest should I trust his opinion if I'm not asking if you are a student in Year 2 of Land Surveyors ... or a cadet who gave only 6 exams at university ..... or if fatigue and recommendations received his BA and nn got almost nothing .... nn or if you've ever seen in life on a construction site ..... etc etc.Lino
Posted by: lino.type
Re: Foundations on the surface - 18/08/2010 04:31
add: as I said, I stopped the construction site and heard the legale.Pare there are details of a risarcimento.Il Studio Legale has heard the engineers and the construction company, x to satisfy that law (each one for their own responsibility) of potential design errors and Messrs esecutivi.I interepellati have downloaded responsibilities to each other, the firm says that the company had to do without nn its findings, the company says that they have complied to the design and / or that such orders are made to the project ricevuti.Di foundations were laid for mt.1, 80 (we are all right), but nn were performed, and the director works (ing.dello study), has neglected to deal with . I, for my part, I had full confidence in the work and completely entrusted nn I was there to see and check all the detail, also because nn is my area ... and is very easy truisms that escape me wrong .. A day .... go down in Sardinia x see what to do ..... Lino____
Posted by: lino.type
Re: Foundations to the surface - 18/08/2010 05:23
ps. Just a moment I scanned the reports and attach files to take note that the forum dimodo visione.Può be that you go ahead through a judicial order to the court and the wrong moves, the lawyer suggested to me now to avoid names, addresses, etc.voi capite.grazie, Lino.
Posted by: lino.type
Re: Foundations to the surface - 18/08/2010 17:05
Hi, Messrs ing. nn I want, but the geologist nn moves an inch, he said foundations should be demolished, I strongly advised not to continue, and to attribute responsibility for the Study of Engineers, in charge of supervision and as through neglect or anything else for the work of the paragraphs were careful ..... I attach comments and relazione.graditi suggerimentiLino_____________
Posted by: mccoy
Re: Foundations to the surface - 08/18/2010 17:33
The report was carried out according to the DM 88 and the connection does not mention him, the law has changed, in Sardinia, this is permissible, but necessary to state the 'Art. 2.7Bisognerebbe also ensure that the building is not classified as relevant (and published in part) and this should also be esplicitato.Per the rest of the links does nothing but highlight a situation that is really critical as we said, all his doubts are well founded, flying on the calculations, which do not in any way by merito.Davvero bizarre the idea of \u200b\u200bbuilding a building when found loose.
Posted by: hump at work
Re: Foundations to the surface - 08/20/2010 01:32
Originally posted by: mccoy
flying on the calculations, which do not in any way by merito.Perche 'not very explicit about? The calculations and the definition of stratigraphy using a dpl without calibration, are the most 'interesting report.
Posted by: lino.type
Re: Foundations to the surface - 08/20/2010 03:08 Originally
Posted by: hump at work
Originally posted by: mccoy
flying on the calculations, which do not in any way by merito.Perche 'not very explicit about? The calculations and the definition of stratigraphy using a dpl without calibration, are the most 'interesting relazione.Salve, comments are interesting .... what does "using a dpl without adjustment?" Thanks, Lino
Posted by: lino.type
Re: Foundations to the surface - 08/20/2010 03:15
Originally posted by: mccoy
b) The calculations of engineers, geotechnical point of view, they are rude and not very conclusive, although their optical nelal are adequate to ripologia structure and the extent of carichi.domanda: ... What does crude and inconclusive? thank you very much Lino____________________________________
Posted by: lino.type
Re: Foundations to the surface - 08/20/2010 03:22
Originally posted by: mccoy
If a friend in your state ask me opinion, the answer as you did Michael, to be sure you should run a survey from scratch from the top of rilevato.Che type of investigation? At least two dynamic tests superheavy, preferably three, co-workers in previous posts have raised the issue of potential heterogeneity, and this can essite in artificial soil and dig a pit in naturale.Non spoil exploratory at the side of the embankment and take a sample to be subjected to laboratory tests, direct shear test and edometrica.domanda: dynamic tests superheavy?, direct shear test and oedometric? exactly what it is? thanks Lino_
Posted by: lino.type
Re: Foundations to the surface - 08/20/2010 03:29
Originally posted by: mccoy
The report was carried out according to the DM 88 and my colleague does not mention him, the law has changed, in Sardinia this is allowed, but it would be necessary to mention the art. 2.7Bisognerebbe also ensure that the building is not classified as relevant (and published in part) and this should also be esplicitato.Domanda: Where can I find and read the DM88 + Article .2.7? The ground floor of the building is planned in the project as local commercial ..... What does "classisicabile ?"..... explained as relevant, that is? ringrazio____Lino
Posted by: Dr.Eno
Re: Foundations to the surface - 08/20/2010 10:49
Even if the survey is Scarsini , cursed the day they invented the light penetrometer, it seems that my colleague is familiar with its terrain. He writes things sensible, I'd trust him. The only reservation concerns the model, we always talk about pressure permissible in relation to a failure of 25 mm which is no small and otherwise with the penetrometrino in question can not be determined. 1.30 and armatissime beams, or cracks a sorpresa.
Posted by: lino.type
Re: Fondazioni in superfice - 21/08/2010 06:13
Salve, recandomi in situ, la situazione è peggio del previsto:ho fatto visionare il cantiere da un gruppo di Ingegneri e di Impresari edili esterni (uno x volta), il lavoro eseguitomi è stato contestato da tutti.Tra le altre cose, sono state omesse:1)le fondazioni previste in progetto2)il livello del massetto realizzato dovrebbe essere a quota 20 cm sopra il livello stradale, invece è 20 cm sotto.(e si trova comunque sopra il ciottolame non costipato etc etc)3)manca totalmente lo spazio per la realizzazione di 1 rampa scale (non hanno lasciato lo spazio x tale manufatto)4)Molti pilastri sono stati ommessi and constructed by drilling a second time to drill the foundation and continues with the inghisandoli resina.5) The Director works on its own initiative, came to the conclusion that the two central pillars supporting the building were undersized, had them demolished with the assumption of redo properly, (meanwhile has wrecked the structure) Comment: I believe that negligence and incompetence are the keynotes of this work, which I have entrusted by customers to a technical (design / project management / security), and a construction company for construction, complete with contracts signed and countersigned and reassurance about .... All charges have been paid in advance tutti.Allego photos.
Posted by: lino.type
Re: Foundations to the surface - 21/08/2010 06:15
Attach File site:
Posted by: lino.type
Re: Foundations to the surface - 21/08/2010 06:17
Attach File site: Thank you x any suggerimento_Lino
Posted by: agi
Re: Foundations to the surface - 21/08/2010 08:48
question: dynamic tests superheavy?, direct shear test and oedometric? exactly what it is? thanks Lino_si is soil tests (penetration tests superheavy: similar to the DL030, but with a hammer and then increased in the first analysis able to go more in depth) and laboratory tests (direct shear and oedometric) on undisturbed samples (generally taken from a survey during a drill) is most suitable for the estimation of soil parameters (cohesion and friction from the cutting test and oedometer form from oedometric) useful for the geotechnical design of the intervention (estimate for the design strength, settlements, etc.).. Regards, agi
Posted by: agi
Re: Foundations to the surface - 21/08/2010 08:56
Originally posted by: lino.type
Originally posted by: mccoy
The report was carried out according to the DM 88 and my colleague does not mention him, the law has changed, in Sardinia this is allowed, but it would be necessary to mention the art. 2.7Bisognerebbe also ensure that the building is not classified as relevant (and published in part) and this should also be esplicitato.Domanda: Where can I find and read the Article DM88 + .2.7? The ground floor of the building is planned in the project as local commercial ..... What does "classisicabile ?"..... explained as relevant, that is? ringrazio____LinoD.M. 11.03.1988 http://www.geologi.it/leggi/dm88-cir.htm Article # 15. 2.7 is part of the NTC 08 and you can download them from here (the first one I found) http://www.ingegneriasoft.com/NTC2008_Norme_tecniche_per_le_costruzioni.htm Regards, agi
Posted by: maximum Trossero
Re: Foundations in surface - 21/08/2010 24:36
Ultimately I think that the poor Lino post a copy on what about angora be carried out projects in Italy's face as heralded by DM 14 January 2008, with its onerous demands ... so I suggest you keep this post for future reference , and utility for all users. Maybe, assign a suitable titolo.Lino beyond a campaign of investigations that are going to take legal action must be performed by third party, your problems are structural, and thus the relevance of these ingegneri.Un geological and geotechnical study would be sensible what to do three dynamic penetration tests, driven about 10m deep, maybe unwind after a rainy season, if there really un problema cosi serio di dissaccamento dei depositi superficiali. Le prove citate si chiamano DPSH e prevedono l'uso di un maglio da 63,5/73 kg che cade da 0,75m, che come vedi sviluppa ben altra energia. Con concomitante misura della soggiacenza del falda in sito (nei fori eseguiti) e indagine storica per verificare se i vicini hanno mai avuto problemi di allagamenti occasionali, che nel tuo caso potrebbero risentirsi nella struttura.Il tutto va tarato con un pozzetto esplorativo che logicamente non si riuscirà a spingere a più di 3-4m di profondità. Nella seconda unità individuata dal Piano Campagna (-0,6 -1.6m) controlla siano eseguite indagini di laboratorio geotecnico come granulometrie, limiti ed eventualmente una prova di taglio ed edometrica; because if the structure is preserved this layer more susceptible to develop problemi.I my best wishes for a resolution of the problem.
Posted by: Ferry
Re: Foundations to the surface - 21/08/2010 18:06
Any relationship that is based on a survey - 2 meters (unless you meet from a substrate lithoid) makes no sense because not comply with the statute of limitations to investigate the "significant volume".
Posted by: 321
Re: Foundations to the surface - 21/08/2010 22:11
Hello Lino, because the questions that you addressed to the Forum did not ask your Geologist? than anything else I feel smarter than many others on the forum and whose interest is more than obvious? Regards Bj
Posted by: 321
Re: Foundations to the surface - 21/08/2010 22:18
Hello Lino, because the questions that you addressed to the Forum did not ask your Geologist? than anything else I feel smarter than many others on the forum and whose interest is more than obvious? Regards Bj
Posted by: lino.type
Re: Foundations to the surface - 22/08/2010 09:43
Originally posted by: 321
Hello Lino, because the questions that you addressed to the Forum did not ask your Geologist ? than anything else I feel smarter than many others on the forum and whose interest is more than obvious? Regards Bj Re: This is the first thing I did, see pdf 5 / post 25 hours of 18/08/2010 17:05) ...
Posted by: lino.type
Re: Foundations to the surface - 22/08/2010 11:12
thank all the Forum for the competence and isuggerimenti.Dopo numerous visits on site with as many external Ing, (all with negative opinions in conflict with their colleagues in the technical study 4) I asked for and obtained an appraisal to match with that of the geologist, for Legali.Vogliate excuse, given the delicacy of the current situation, if the documents I have deleted the references identificativi_Allego expertise of the engineer. tuttiLino
good job Posted by: mccoy
Re: Foundations on the surface - 22/08/2010 14:54
Originally posted by: hump at work
Originally posted by: mccoy
flying on the calculations, which do not in any way by merito.Perche 'not very explicit about? The calculations and the definition of stratigraphy using a dpl without calibration, are the most 'interesting relazione.Ah yes, I'm sure the hat is part of many of these interpretations
Posted by: maximum Trossero
Re: Foundations to the surface - 22/08/2010 15:35
remains strange that it considers appropriate in the new professional geotechnical investigation last year, when the same although the results are plausible if the species is inconsistent should be presented in the professional tribunale.Ovvero refers to a different plan without secure foundations of a sufficient background geotechnical support. In short, we suggest you spend € 42 thousand in 1500 in new foundations without spending surveys indispensabili.La thing that kept me intrigued from the outset is that the first designer has always been opposed to the conclusions of the geologist, thus giving rise to doubts in the client ( perhaps instilled by the DL just happened that seems to be third, just like in the big contracts). The designer should always be careful in keeping with the shift of geotechnical otherwise you dig the pit in case of disputes. This is why it is often the designer who chooses the geotechnical or geologist.
Posted by: hump at work
Re: Foundations to the surface - 23/08/2010 02:22
Originally posted by: lino.type
Originally posted by: hump at work
Originally posted by: mccoy
flying on the calculations , which do not in any way by merito.Perche 'not very explicit about? The calculations and the definition of stratigraphy using a dpl without calibration, are the most 'interesting relazione.Salve, comments are interesting .... what does "using a dpl without adjustment?" It means that there' way to attribute the resistance encountered at the tip of the penetrometer penetration of some geotechnical parameters and you can not 'rebuild a stratigraphy based on the number of strokes to advance the tip of a certain length if you are not at least an excavation or survey also destroyed or at least a reconstruction of the stratigraphy with a certain system and, based on that reconstruction, to determine which geotechnical parameters come into play. Or you can 'use magic or divination or statistics to define them.
Posted by: lino.type
Re: Foundations to the surface - 23/08/2010 23:01
Originally posted by: max Trossero
remains strange that it considers appropriate in the new professional geotechnical survey before, but when the same the results are plausible species is inconsistent if it should be presented tribunale.Ovvero in the professional refers to a different plan without secure foundations of a sufficient background geotechnical support. In short, we suggest you spend € 42 thousand in 1500 in new foundations without spending surveys indispensabili.La thing that kept me intrigued from the outset is that the first designer has always been opposed to the conclusions of the geologist, thus giving rise to doubts in the client ( perhaps instilled by the DL just happened that seems to be third, just like in the big contracts). The designer should always be careful in keeping with the shift of geotechnical otherwise you dig the pit in case of disputes. This is why it is often the designer who chooses the geologist or geotechnical. Egr.massimo trosserovoglia apologize if the documentation without specific references confusione.Ricapitolando generates a little: I asked for clarification to the new Eng. geologo.Di and jointly maintain the precarious nature of a structure built on the pebbles, the geologist added that its investigation is more than enough for my case and that there was no need to proceed further. (his words) he design work in a variety of professionals and the tasks are divided, the Director works is an engineer. the study, but initially work at the shipyard were followed by a geometra.Lino
Posted by: lino.type
Re: Foundations to the surface - 23/08/2010 23:19
gent.le Forum ... .., please excuse the anonymity literature, which generates a little confusion (legal reasons), summing up in relation to the construction of which has been said we have the following: 1) geological report (external assessment) 2) technical report (report of a ing.esterno) I attach it again:-file project-file-Motion takeoff of the technical study with admission damage and proposed a riparazione____gradito vs.competente parerecordialissimi Regards, Lino
Posted by: lino.type
Re: Foundations to the surface - 23/08 / 2010 23:21
Annex:
Posted by: lino.type
Re: Foundations to the surface - 23/08/2010 23:24
attachments:
Posted by: hump at work
Re: Foundations to the surface - 08/23/2010 23:34
Originally posted by: lino.type
geologist adds that its investigation is more than enough for my case and that there was need to proceed further. (his words) Use ask the host if its wine and 'good, you'll never have that answer?
Posted by: lino.type
Re: Foundations to the surface - 08/24/2010 24:39
Originally posted by: hump at work
If you ask the host if its wine and 'good, that you never answer have? Precisely so; I agree ..... that is why I extended the circle of trust advice .....( dead and buried in all under )____ Question: What do you think of the answer given me by the Forum Studio Tech? (See attachments) thanks, Lino.
Posted by: lino.type
Re: Foundations to the surface - 08/24/2010 24:58
Originally posted by:
hump at work [/ quote] Hi, the comments are interesting .... what does " dpl without using a calibration? "It means that there is no 'way of conferring resistance encountered at the tip of the penetrometer penetration of some geotechnical parameters and you can not' rebuild a stratigraphy based on the number of strokes to advance the tip of a certain length if you are not at least an excavation or survey also destruction or otherwise of a reconstruction stratigrafia con un sistema certo e, in base a quella ricostruzione, stabilire quali parametri geotecnici entrano in gioco. Oppure si puo' usare la magia o la divinazione o la statistica per definirli.Salve, mi faccia capire, detto in altre parole mi stà dicendo che su un qualsiasi terreno del tipo quello citato, previo scotico di 20cm, si può realizzare in loco uno strato di ciottolame, e costruirci sopra le fondazioni per un edificio.....(dove potrei leggere a sostegno di questo?)Mentre noi si disquisisce ho visto che sotto gli angoli delle fondamenta il ciottolame stà franando e sì è scostato lasciando degli spazi di vuoto......ringrazio, Lino____
Posted by: Ferdinando Ridolfi
Re: Fondazioni in surface - 08/24/2010 13:07
If there are responsibilities, they are completely technical office to which he was awarded the job, I see no other responsibility. Seeing the photos shows that the best thing is to completely demolish what has been done and proceed from scratch, by design. In my opinion it will be hard to completely take over is the official technical expenses and will do anything to not pay. At this point, Lino, will be forced to act in a lawsuit. After months and perhaps years of hearings and reports and comparative, if Lino is fine, able to be paid only the costs necessary for the repair proposal from 'technical department, you will find it (after years) to have spent money and have a building that is structurally sucks. At this point, if I can not afford counsel, Lino would send to hell all those with whom he has worked so far, to proceed at his own expense to the demolition of buildings, give the job to professionals seri.Alla end of the psalms, it is found in a short time, the building finished and fully realized and will have limited economic damages subiti.Saluti
Posted by: Negus
Re: Foundations to the surface - 08/24/2010 15:33
Originally posted by: Ferdinand
Ridolfi. ... Lino, will be forced to act in a lawsuit. After months and perhaps years of hearings and reports and comparative, if Lino is fine, able to be paid only the costs necessary for the repair proposal from 'technical department, you will find it (after years) to have spent money and have a building that is structurally sucks. At this point, if I can not afford counsel, Lino would send to hell all those with whom he has worked so far, to proceed at his own expense to the demolition of buildings, give the job to professionals seri.Alla end of the psalms, it is found in a short time, the building finished and fully realized and will have limited economic damage suffered. Metaphorically speaking, good Lino is in a large shower surrounded by several different fustacchioni straight and dropped the soap, which leaves the ground or collect, is the only one to lose him.
Posted by: lino.type
Re: Foundations to the surface - 08/24/2010 15:50 Hi
forum ........ please excuse ..... but no risk anything? Not tell me ke I read that those are only coglionerie .... I hope, someone will aldisopra of "professional "..... or not?
Posted by: lino.type
Re: Foundations to the surface - 08/24/2010 16:16
cort.se forum ..... I am interested in a particular vs. opinion on the estimate and proposals received by the "technical "..... see Annex: Lino
Posted by: Negus
Re: Foundations to the surface - 08/24/2010 16:42
course the autodenuncia the structure is not suitable functional and static last row is a true masterpiece. Lino follow the advice of the engineer. Ridolfi and start over, with the proposal, with some foundations to share and some to another, is the worst thing in terms of differential settlement that, in future, cracks insured.
Posted by: hump at work
Re: Foundations to the surface - 08/24/2010 19:57
Originally posted by: lino.type
Hi, let me know, in other words is telling me that on any soil type of that given after scotico 20cm, you can create a layer of pebbles on the spot, and build on the foundations A building, better re-read what I wrote, and that ': to reconstruct a stratigraphic (ie' to identify materials that are in the basement) and determine geotechnical parameters assigned to the various layers identified by only a dynamic penetrometer and without adjustment 'a' undertaking that involves having divine powers.
Posted by: lino.type
Re: Foundations to the surface - 08/24/2010 21:20
Originally posted by: hump at work
No, better re-read what I wrote, and that ': to reconstruct a stratigraphic (ie 'to identify materials that are in the basement) and determine geotechnical parameters assigned to the various layers identified by only a dynamic penetrometer without adjustment and 'undertaking that involves having powers divinatori.Mi seem to understand then that the report provided by the geologist is pretty weak if not inappropriate and / or otherwise inappropriate conduct with a tool ...... right? I recommend redo all using? Well, at least tomorrow to ritelefono geologist and ask questions .....( ps. scotico under the assumption that the there is a mountain of granite .... pure thought out the construction as it would be fine ? or pebbles should not always be used ?_____ thanks, Lino.
Posted by: hump at work
Re: Foundations to the surface - 24/08/2010 22:01
I make my own Ridout's advice: "Lino should send to that country all with whom he has worked so far, proceed at his own expense to the demolition of buildings, give the job to professionals more serious. "
Posted by: lino.type
Re: Foundations to the surface - 24/08/2010 22:35
Originally posted by:
hump at work I make my own Ridout's advice: "Lino expected to send to hell all those with whom he has worked so far, to proceed at his own expense to the demolition of buildings, give the job to professionals more serious." In my expense? Allow me, but my attorney agrees nn, thank you anyway, for the wise counsel ...... Lino_
Posted by: lino.type
Re: Foundations to the surface - 08.24.2010 22: 38
Originariamente inviato da: gibbo at work
.....facendo solo una penetrometria dinamica senza taratura e' un'impresa che comporta avere poteri divinatori.Mi pare di capire quindi che la relazione fornita dal geologo è piuttosto carente se non inappropriata e/o comunque condotta con strumento non adatto......giusto?Mi consiglia di rifare il tutto utilizzando?Beh, come minimo domani ritelefono al geologo e chiedo chiarimenti.....(ps. nella supposizione che sotto lo scotico ci sia una montagna di granito puro....la costruzione congegnata così com'è andrebbe bene? o il ciottolame deve sempre e comunque non esser utilizzato?_____grazie, Lino. [/quote]
Posted by: massimo trossero
Re: Fondazioni on the surface - 08/26/2010 13:04
Lino I think I have enumerated some evidence as possible, which would probably be passed esaustive.________________________________________Per I agree with Mr. Ridolfi, start over and ask if he believes the parallel danni.Personalmente we've had in a condominium with a Case Study of the newly purchased home, trying to close out of court the CTU has "forced" to accept compensation offered by the company, which consisted of working with our director lavori.Il Ns surrendered after a year! There was nothing to do with those. We have spent thousands of euro in legal and expert reports, and the damage was not repaired risolto.Avessimo we would have been a possibility we are in risparmio.Ora to sue, viincerla, and paying handsomely, however, but then would not know if the money they take is my mai.Questa esperienza.Naturalmente is possible that the case would end quickly in that hole Sardinian, but legal fees often strike me as disproportionate parcelle.In to our luck.
Posted by: lino.type
Re: Foundations to the surface - 08/26/2010 17:33
Originally posted by: max Trossero
Lino I think I have enumerated some evidence as possible, which would probably be passed esaustive.________________________________________Per I agree with Mr. Ridolfi, start over and ask if he believes the parallel danni.Personalmente we've had in a condominium with a Case Study of the newly purchased house, trying to close out of court the CTU has "forced" to accept compensation offered by the company, which consisted of working with our director lavori.Il Ns surrendered after a year! There was nothing to do with those. We have spent thousands of euro in legal and expert reports, and the damage was not repaired risolto.Avessimo we would have been a risparmio.Ora us the ability to sue, viincerla, and paying handsomely, however, but then would not know whether the money will never take . This is my esperienza.Naturalmente is possible that the case would end quickly in that hole Sardinia, but the legal fees I think are often disproportionate to the ns parcelle.In luck. Egr.massimo trosserola thank you and thank the entire board for the valuable clarification ..... My attorney of his own opinion, I honestly express what you have just posted .... Question: Does the inexperience of unequivocal cases like mine, the provincial College of Albi and category role towards their own members, which until proven otherwise discredit the entire category? As already said, please excuse ..... but no risk anything? not tell me that those are only read ke c. ....... I hope .... there must be someone aldisopra of "freelance" or not? (Ke hoping we should not get to see God .....) Attachments already posted: pdf Code of Conduct ingegneri.pdf codice_deontologico geometri.pdf of thanks, Lino_
Posted by: Grannis
Re: Foundations to the surface - 08/26/2010 21:04
Originally posted by: lino.type
Question: the incompetence of unequivocal cases like mine, the Albi and Colleges Provincial category that role towards their own members, which, until proven otherwise discredit the entire category? As already said, please excuse ..... but no risk anything? not tell me that I read those ke c. ....... just .... I hope, someone will aldisopra of "freelance" or not? (Ke hoping we should not reach God .....) thanks Lino_Anche if you are targeting the professional what you think I can do it?? Al the most esteemed directors and presidents (most of the time most of the members who are incompetent ..) will put a hat that read "ASS" (with all due respect to the poor asses ..) and a ..... reprimand ... That is nothing compared to what you claimed and the money you've put ..... fact that laws are only c. eea .... you will only lit match in hand. ... to say the least .. This shows all the unnecessary 'ORDER ....( but that's another story ..) I advise you to bring these scientists to pay their expenses and the demolition Reconstruction up to the ceiling of the first level (designed and built by others .. it seems to me obvious ..)... unless he accepts, you make a sworn appraisal and proceed through the courts ... (I recommend to the legal eye ..) It 's true the road is long, tortuous and expensive ... but in the end the rewards are good .. and the judge is 'single "above" the LP and scientists will at least make sure ordiniMa sti?? SalutiP.S.: but you took the plunge: to check whether they are actually Ing and / or surveyor ??... greetings
Posted by: maximum Trossero
Re: Foundations to the surface - 08/27/2010 00:15
Dear Lino, The action of the orders is often not automatic, anzi.Se want to affect their professional associations to do so before you start legal action, in this way will have the opportunity to present in processo anche i provvedimenti del caso presi dagli ordini "portando acqua al suo mulino".
Posted by: gibbo at work
Re: Fondazioni in superfice - 27/08/2010 02:40
Originariamente inviato da: lino.type
Come già detto:vogliate scusare.....ma nessuno rischia nulla?Finche' non ci scappa il morto, all'atto pratico nessuno rischia nulla.Gli Ordini tendono a "calmare le acque" per non screditare ulteriormente la categoria e perche' "cane non mangia cane".E i margini discrezionali lasciati ai progettisti sono cosi' ampi che in ogni caso una qualche scappatoia la si trova sempre.Poi possiamo discutere su cosa serve un Ordine, ma questo e' un altro discorso.Se ricontrolla i messaggi ricevuti, vedra 'in at least two or three have indicated what to do as investigations and laboratory tests, more' or less, all pointing in the same parallel cose.Magari send out the cause, but it will take years.
Posted by: Ferry
Re: Foundations to the surface - 08/27/2010 08:57
If you have a health problem, ranging from a doctor saying, aleatory so wrong if I ask him if they damage or look for one of fame trying to reach a solution ??????
Posted by: lino.type
Re: Foundations to the surface - 08/27/2010 21:27
thank all the forum x pragmatism with which the subject has been treated purely and simply ....... ! Lino
Posted by: lino.type
Re: Foundations to the surface - 27/08/2010 21:32
Originally posted by: hump at work
Until 'we do not beat the dead, when virtually no risk nulla.il dead? ... . to the Eagle I seem to remember more than a dead ..... no I am not stopping, it's building firms, nor of surveyors, engineers do the same old crap .....( Italian .. .) ke ago the legislature? Lino
Posted by: lino.type
Re: Foundations to the surface - 27/08/2010 21:35
Originally Posted By: Grannis
If you do not accept, please make a report under oath and proceed through the courts ... (I recommend to the legal eye ..) It 's true the road is long, winding and expensive ... but in the end the rewards are good .. and the judge is the only "above" and the LP ordiniMa sti scientists will at least be sure?? Regards PS ...... : but you took the plunge: to check whether they are actually Ing and / or surveyor ??... greetings' s what I thought Anki ke ... but I tell my lawyer insists ke all the Italian legal system is designed so that wrong .... ke ki gets away .....( congratulations to the legislature!) Lino_____________
Posted by: mccoy
Re: Foundations on the surface - 08/27/2010 21:37
Quote:
the legislature ke ago? Something is facendoMolti of building firms, have died from tempo.Gli reinforced concrete buildings collapsed were all seized by the prosecution and investigation of possible faults sliders are still in progress on the investigation committee risks
Posted by: lino.type
Re: Foundations to the surface - 27/08/2010 21:42
Originally posted by:
hump at work I make my own Ridout's advice: "Lino expected to send to hell all those with whom he has worked so far, to proceed at his own expense to the demolition of buildings, give the job to professionals serious . 'The idea is good .... but we're talking about 274 square meters of foundations welded mesh + + + base + iron + concrete etc etc ................... Lino
... Posted by: lino.type
Re: Foundations to the surface - 08/27/2010 21:48
Originally posted by: mccoy
Quote:
the legislature ke ago? ... Something is making many of the building firms, have died a long time. The reinforced concrete buildings collapsed were all seized by the prosecution and investigation of possible crimes are still ongoing. Investigation is in progress on the commission risks Well, God's punishment on the count ... that there is little to get x for both good and bad for the .....( you know what satisfaction!) With respect to the rest .. nn .. Purk ends with the DC9 Ustica ... so an example x in a billion examples ..... Lino_
Posted by: lino.type
Re: Foundations to the surface - 08/27/2010 22:03
Egr. Forum ...... doing a spin on this portal, I ended up: http://www.geoforum.it/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=84971 # Post84971
Quote:
Test No.6 dynamic penetration read DL030 pushed up to depths of 10-15 m from the PC or otherwise refuse strumentale.Relazione including technical geological stratigraphy, tables, stratigraphic sections, giving graphic (obtained dalleCPT), calculation of Vs30 and seismic classification of soils, with considerations on the importance of the land, tipologiafondazionale be taken, the laying of the foundation, classification of land in OPCM 03/20/2003 n 3274, the influence of groundwater (if present), stability of excavations edeventuali precautions. the results obtained will be signed by a qualified geologist Note: I seem to recall that in my case it used a DL030, rule out the bullshit of the push up to 10-15 meters deep, if I remember the vs. But ...... I read that teaching is provided as technical geological report which will include stratigraphy, tables, stratigraphic sections, etc etc etc ......." Question: sorry .... No, but in my post there was talk of testing and reporting on approximate and not valid for legal purposes ...... thanks Lino_
Posted by: lino.type
Re: Foundations to the surface - 08.28.2010 16 : 50
Originally posted by: Negus
Certo che l'autodenuncia sulla struttura non idonea funzionalmente e staticamente dell'ultima riga è un autentico capolavoro. Lino segua il consiglio dell'ing. Ridolfi e riparta da capo; la soluzione proposta, con un pò di fondazioni a una quota e un pò ad un'altra, è la cosa peggiore a livello di cedimenti differenziali per cui, in futuro, crepe assicurate. Ringrazio Negus.....devo dire che mi aspettavo maggiori interventi e commenti "tecnici" sulla proposta (lacunosa?) dello "Studio di Progettazione"........che a quanto pare si difendono più che bene....Lino__
Posted by: Ferry
Re: Fondazioni in superfice - 29/08/2010 03:44
Comunque Lino non hai molta scelta.1) Al Beyond all the talk will be a judge to decide whether or not there was an error. This will cost you at least a long dispute and end the proceedings will be determined by a CTU.2) The biggest mistake is to build above the ground, removing pc where you have the whole load of pebbles on the year (this You should've known you too) that in addition to having to be compacted should have been a mix of sand to fill the gaps and make less mobili.3 clasts) Are you sure that you have already triggered the differential settlement and that the foundation has been damaged ? 4) Are you sure the quality of the Cls? Evaluates all these factors and then you have two solutions: 1) Cut the head bull to break down and do it all for bene2) entrusted to engineers to see the University can move forward on the six state of affairs. For me the error in the design.
Posted by: lino.type
Re: Foundations to the surface - 08/30/2010 02:12
Originally posted by: Ferry
However Lino do not have much scelta.1) Beyond all the talk will be a Judge to decide whether or not there was an error. This will cost you at least a long dispute and end the proceedings will be determined by a CTU.Domanda: sole opinion or objectionable? 2) The biggest mistake is to build on top of the pc where you are not removing the entire soil operating load on the pebbles (you should know this too) that in addition to having to be compacted should have been a mix of sand to fill the gaps and make clasts less mobili.re: I entrusted the work to a director ... . (nn I understand anything ...) 3) Are you sure that you have already triggered the differential settlement and that the foundation has been damaged? re: No, I see failure ... but there is not yet any loading .... so we miss that right now it breaks everything ... 4) Are you sure the quality of the Cls? Re: It was bought by a production plant .... or should we also consider that .... boh? Evaluates all these factors and then you have two solutions: 1) Cut the head of the bull break down and do it all for benere: talk about 274mq foundations ki ...... paying? 2) entrusted to engineers to see the University can move forward on the six state fatto.Re: Well ... if someone would give me a tip on the forum ... but here you are (I think for good reason) opposed all .. ... For me the error in the design. Re: no .... the project is correct, the problem is that nn performed what was expected in the project the director has made a mistake ..... work that has followed the work and the company has not looked good the metric ...... thanks forum, Lino
Posted by: Ferry
Re: Foundations to the surface - 08/30/2010 10:40
1) The failure of the design lies in the fact which is absurd on the one hand to perform a geological report (in which the substance is not within the quality) that will provide a floor laying and the other rests the bottom portion even above the pc all in contravention of the rules of "good sense. " If common sense was the solution to the pebbles it must be ensured as it does with the railway embankments that this was performed flawlessly thing that seems to have been rejected
Posted by: Ferry
Re: Foundations to the surface - 30/08 / 2010 10:44
2) I remember that place the responsibility of the designer NTC2008 IN ALL STAGES OF INVESTIGATION This forces him to choose geologist, geotechnical, structural engineer (who must work in simbiosi al Progetto) e indagini (preliminari, in fase di messa in opera e in fase di collaudo dell'opera) appropriate alla corretta messa in opera del suo Progetto. Il fatto che non capisca di aspetti tecnici non lo esenta dalla Resposabilità Solidale che il cap. 6 NTC 2008 gli attribuisce in quanto esecutore del Progetto
Posted by: Ferry
Re: Fondazioni in superfice - 30/08/2010 10:46
3) Entriamo nel merito di quello che si evince dalle foto:La struttura fondale è danneggiata? Bisogna rifarla indipendentemente da chi paga i danni
Posted by: Ferry
Re: Fondazioni in superfice - 30/08/2010 10:49
4) La struttura fondale non ha subito danni?Allora must answer the following questions: E 'efficiently to bear the weight of the structure and the stresses static / dynamic (yes / no / to investigate and call a qualified technician)
Posted by: Ferry
Re: Foundations to the surface - 30/08 / 2010 10:52
5) the problem is in the pebbles? sold? That failure has caused? What does not see them? Oppurtamente misurati.Se go there what kind of damage they have caused the foundation is damaged? The failure (if any) are absolute, differential, rotational?
Posted by: Ferry
Re: Foundations to the surface - 30/08/2010 10:53
6) There are no failures and the foundation structure is intatta?Si possono eseguire pali/micropali che vadano a scaricare su uno strato resistente (previo accertarlo con indagine seria). Questa soluzione la devono valutare strutturisti seri e qualificati
Posted by: Ferry
Re: Fondazioni in superfice - 30/08/2010 10:55
7) La fondazione così come progettata è adeguata per il carico della struttura?Allora si può ritornare al punto 6
Posted by: Ferry
Re: Fondazioni in superfice - 30/08/2010 10:59
8) Chi paga i danni?Il richiedente fa eseguire una Consulenza Tecnica di Parte e si inzia una richiesta di risarcimento danni presso un Tribunale. Il giudice nomina un CTU e chiama in causa tutti i componenti the project (including comittente). It is found and who was wrong after the Judgement, the Appeal and Supreme Court who failed any pay (if you have the money to pay).
Posted by: Ferry
Re: Foundations to the surface - 30/08/2010 11:09
What leaves most think that all this happens in a landslide area, or strong earthquake, or due to flood in, or the presence of a water surface or in loose or liquefiable clayey soils, but in a geological context (at least as described) that sembrebbe fit to run a grattacielo.Lino nothing personal we discuss only general technical aspects on the basis of experience previous
Posted by: Ferry
Re: Fondazioni in superfice - 30/08/2010 11:24
Specifico meglio:Quanto ho detto l'errore è nel Progetto (non intedenvo errore prettamente tecncio) ha il senso di dire che il Progetto/Progettista ha il compito gravoso di portare a compimento quanto progettato altrimenti è un fallimento.Per cui deve "prevedere" e annullare tutte quelle "variabili negative" che ti possono inficiare il buone esito. Questo conduce a tre strade: 1) sovradimensionare le opere con notevole aggravio di costi; 2) scegliere indagini e tecnici di qualità allo scopo di valutare in modo idoneo le variabili negative; 3) affidarsi all'istinto e all'esperienza con tutto quello che ne consegue in caso di errore.Ti saluto e ti faccio un grosso in Good luck
Posted by: lino.type
Re: Foundations to the surface - 31/08/2010 12:53
Originally posted by: Ferry
Hail and you do a big good luck Gent.mo Ferry, xi valuable suggestions .... thank you ps: I filed a petition to the Court, the leaders reject any addebito.Lino_
